User talk:Rip

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Welcome . . .

to our currently-unnamed Greyhawk Wiki. Feel free to post any questions you may have on my talk page.--Robbastard 20:25, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

Deity articles

Thanks for your contributions. However, most Greyhawk deities have already been covered on Wikipedia--it would likely be easier to just copy & paste from those, then expand onto what's already been written. There's also a deity template you can use. Let me know if you have any questions.--Robbastard 20:25, 29 August 2007 (EDT)


Please check the Writing Guidelines & the other articles for formating. Not that I don't appreciate the help, but it saves me time if everyone formats their articles the same way. For instance, instead of "sources," use "Bibliography" (& use "=" rather than bolding), & list the sources using Chicago Manual of Style citations. Several sources are already in this format in other articles, particularly on the work's author page. Thanks.--Robbastard 20:58, 29 August 2007 (EDT)


Again, much of what you're doing is already on Wikipedia--see Pandemonium. And don't forget to use the edit summary. :)--Robbastard 21:18, 29 August 2007 (EDT)


I deleted this page, because it's beyond the scope of this wiki. We no more need a "realm" article than we do, say, a "sword" or "horse" article. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to post something on my talk page.--Robbastard 21:25, 29 August 2007 (EDT)


I deleted this page, because Loviater is a FR deity whose activities on Oerth are limited to the Hanging Glacier. I did link her name on that & Telchur's pages to her entry on the FR wiki on Wikia, however. If there is enough demand for her own page on this wiki, however, I have no problem recreating it.--Robbastard 19:24, 5 September 2007 (EDT)

EEP (re: Demogorgon)

Thanks for the fix, Rip. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention whan I was moving articles over and moved the wrong one over :) Pat Payne 18:44, 7 September 2007 (EDT)


Given that affiliations are so heavily entwined in game mechanics (which will certainly be outdated with the release of 4E), perhaps a more mechanic-neutral infobox would be better, such as Template:Greyhawk Organization?--Robbastard 23:09, 8 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, seeing there's already a category for Greyhawk organizations, an infobox & corresponding category for affiliations seems rather redundant, given that the only real difference between the two is affiliations are organizations with game mechanics.--Robbastard 23:26, 8 September 2007 (EDT)


See my response to your concerns at Talk:Krovis.--Robbastard 18:26, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Writing guidelines

The Writing Guidelines have been expanded & fleshed out a bit. There's also a section of guidelines for deity articles.--Robbastard 19:24, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Also, see Template talk:Greyhawk Organization for thoughts on the org infobox.--Robbastard 19:26, 16 September 2007 (EDT)


Please see the talk page for a question on this article.--Robbastard 21:20, 17 September 2007 (EDT)


We have several dead links to pages for "TSR, Inc" and "Wizards of the Coast." This appears to be due to articles copied over from Wikipedia for which the brackets weren't removed. Pages for those companies are beyond the scope of this wiki, as anything specifically "Greyhawk" in regards to TSR or WotC would be covered in the Greyhawk article. Since these are mainly pages you 'ported over, would you mind going through and removing the WotC & TSR links (most should be in the bibliography section). A list of those articles can be found here[1], here[2], and here[3]. Thanks.--Robbastard 16:08, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Also, if you could take care of the linked years (1983, 2000, 1980, 1998, 1992, 2002, 2005, 2001, 1988, 2004, 2006, 1979), coat of arms, campaign setting, here, copper, here, here, monarchy, platinum, silver, electrum, here, [ adventure paths], here, here, gold, here, here, here, here, here, & alignment, it would be much appreciated.--Robbastard 21:56, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Adventure Path

I'm deleting this article, as it's really too general, & all Greyhawk information can be covered in Shackled City, Age of Worms, & Savage Tide articles. Should we absolutely need to link to this subject, I'd suggest linking to the Wikipedia article.--Robbastard 21:31, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Greyhawk articles being targeted at Wikipedia

A deletionist has been targeting several Greyhawk articles on Wikipedia. I've been salvaging some of them, but he's outpaced me. Could you help me port them over here, please? His userpage is here, & his edit history here. Lately, he's been targeting the Greyhawk locations category, working alphabetically. Thanks.--Robbastard 20:21, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

He's currently targeting Greyhawk deity articles on Wikipedia. Luckily, we seem to have a good start there.-- 18:11, 8 October 2007 (EDT)


I removed the section of this article entitled, "List of characters Rary is smarter than." Such a section adds little value to the article, and comes off as tacky and juvenile. A better way to promote Rary's ability scores would be to list them in the "description" section. Also, removing the one article was not a mistake--"into the Bright Desert" is already listed, and appeared in Dungeon #98 (the one in #103 was titled "Denizens of the Bright Desert").[4]

Of course, removing the reference entirely, rather than merely renaming it, was a mistake. Dungeon #103 was a major reference and, regardless of what it was called, should have been left in there. I apologize for the error, however, and I'm glad we got that straightened out.

Rip 19:18, 6 November 2007 (EST)


Hey Rip, make sure when uploading images for infoboxes you resize them to 200 pix wide, as they fit into the box better. Great find on Cyndor, btw--I didn't know any pics existed of him!--Robbastard 20:52, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Dogma of Orcus

Could you place an in-line quotation (source, page number, in parentheses) after this bit so we aren't accused of plagiarism? Thanks.--Robbastard 20:24, 17 December 2007 (EST)

The paragraph in question was paraphrased. The italics were a stylistic choice, but it isn't a direct quote (I rearranged the sentences, used different words, and left things out that, while flavorful uses of language, didn't actually convey solid information). I can certainly cite my source, however. Rip 20:29, 17 December 2007 (EST)
My apologies. However, being that you wrote it in the second person makes it appear to be a direct quote. Could you convert it to the third person so it isn't mistaken for an actual "Orcusite proverb"? Either that, or just quote it in its orginal form & provide attribution. Thanks.--Robbastard 20:42, 17 December 2007 (EST)

The original quote, from Ghostwalk, page 85, was:

Promise your soul to Orcus, for through him you will live forever. Eat of his tainted flesh and drink of his fiendish blood, and you will know eternal unlife. The worshipers of Orcus will sweep over the world in a tide of death, leaving those who resist reduced to slaves for our amusement. Even the gods will fall and taste bone and ashes in their mouths, for Orcus is the weight that hangs heavy on every soul, providing grist for the mill of misery and pain. Foes are unworthy of mercy; instead, give them torture under the pretense of honorable surrender.

- Rip 20:49, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Monster Mythology

Hey Rip, I finally finished adding all the gods in Monster Mythology, copying them from wikipedia. In the not-too-distant future, I'll start adding some details to the really stubby ones from the book. You and Rob are really good at fleshing them out, so I'll leave that to you guys.  :) BOZ 15:28, 22 December 2007 (EST)


"We have both a Temple of Elemental Evil article and a The Temple of Elemental Evil article. They seem to be virtually identical, except The Temple has another field filled in the infobox. Just a heads up. -- Rip 17:19, 5 January 2008 (EST)"


Is up for deletion: [5] BOZ 10:36, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Logically, I guess this one is no surprise then: Slaad, and also someone tagged Lynkhab for same. BOZ 09:52, 28 January 2008 (EST)

And now, Rudd. BOZ 18:41, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Look at this idiot now: [6] He's calling me theatrical for defending my article, but it looks like he's the one crying like a big baby. :) BOZ 10:55, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Welcome back!

Didn't realize we were back online.  :)

Got some bad news though: [7] BOZ 11:00, 14 April 2008 (EDT)


I decided it's time to finally do something about this guy: BOZ 16:30, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

So, we talked about it for awhile, and now we're considering something a tad stronger: BOZ 22:05, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Able Carter

Hey, Rip, I see that you placed Able Carter under the "Greyhawk organizations" category. What do you think of a "Greyhawk businesses" category, or something similar? Though businesses are technically organizations, I don't think we should list taverns, smithies, as such. I think such establishments would be better categorized as "Greyhawk businesses" (which can be further categorized according to the type of business, such as "Greyhawk inns and taverns"). Guilds, however, I think would fall under organizations, since they represent the interests of a trade as a whole, instead of one individual or family. There would in some cases be crossovers, of course. Thoughts?--Robbastard 13:34, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Azalin Rex

It's actually not Gavin this time! BOZ 11:22, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

Artifacts list BOZ 23:34, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Publication histories

Give me some feedback, if you like. :) BOZ 13:50, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

I went ahead and implemented my idea on Orcus, beholder, illithid, sahuagin, Moradin, and Corellon Larethian. Feel free to make whatever corrections or additions are needed. Feel free to add details from any book in the form of "This book describes the subject as..." as well, if you like; I was just trying to get the bare bones set up to make that possible. :) BOZ 11:55, 30 June 2008 (EDT)


We haven't had one of these lately! [8] BOZ 19:17, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

By the way, if the fates don't conspire against me too much, I'm heading off to GenCon tonight. Hope to run into Todd Stewart there! BOZ 08:23, 14 August 2008 (EDT)


OK, this one hits me where it hurts. Some people warned me at the time that people might try to delete the List of D&D monsters sooner or later, and I guess I just had to wait around long enough. I put a ton of work into that, and everyone *else* said "hey nice work, great idea!" Now some asshead deletionist got a good look at it and things aren't looking so good. :( Also up for the big D is the 2nd Ed monsters list. Any support you could give would be mucho appreciated. BOZ 08:47, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Well said on both counts, sir.  :) Things are looking good for both, but your enthusiastic support has never hurt before! BOZ 08:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

now here's one that's doomed for failure:  ;) BOZ 10:58, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

D&D articles for Wikipedia 0.7

Hey there!  :) If you are interested, Wikipedia is going to have a DVD release of some of the top articles coming out around the holidays. I'm inviting you to participate in our goal to both improve articles that have been selected to be placed in the next Wikipedia DVD release, as well as nominate more to be selected for this project. Please see the WikiProject D&D talk page for more details. :) BOZ 11:14, 24 September 2008 (EDT)


Hey, Rip, thanks for all the work you've done here--this wiki would be far, far smaller if not for your diligence! Would you perhaps be interested in some admin rights? Essentially, you'd be able to block users, delete pages, and protect pages (and the reverse of those functions as well). I think that between the two of us, we should be able to keep up with the damn spammers. :)--Robbastard 10:38, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Done! Try protecting a few pages (there should be a "protect" tab that is now accessible on each page) & see if it works--oh, yeah & make sure you choose "registered users" & not "sysops"--we only have two of the later (me & you). Thanks, & let me know if you have any trouble.--Robbastard 20:33, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Our old friend

Hey there. :) We are preparing a nice surprise for our old friend. When he decides to ignore that, we'll step it up. Anything you want to contribute? BOZ 16:08, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Finally! :) BOZ 14:00, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Here we go again, hopefully this will be more effective: :) Could you also point Shemeska in that direction? I seem to have lost contact with him. BOZ 17:06, 5 December 2008 (EST)

Magic items

I think we can salvage this one:

These AFDs don't come up as often as they used to, now that most of Gavin's notability tags are gone, but there will always be interested deletionists making a stab... BOZ 09:41, 24 December 2008 (EST)


Rip, which source clarifies that Saint Benedor was a follower of Pelor? I'd always assumed him to be a Heironean.--Robbastard 11:32, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Thanks, man--i can always rely on you to find something i overlooked 9or can't remember).--Robbastard 13:03, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Dwellers of the Forbidden City

Hey Rip, do you happen to own a copy of this module? If you have a bit of free time, would you mind tossing up a one to two-paragraph plot summary of the module on its Wikipedia page? I wanted to try to promote it to "Good Article" status, until I realized the article says virtually nothing about its contents. ;) BOZ 22:00, 17 January 2009 (EST)

I got that taken care of - if you can think of anything else to help improve the article for GA status, feel free to jump in at any point. :) BOZ 16:18, 20 January 2009 (EST)


Hey Rip, I noticed you uploaded an image of Acererak from Vecna: Hand of the Revenant. Do you by chance have a good one of Kas (& his sword) from the same book? I think that would look far better than that crappy pic from Open Grave.--Robbastard 21:11, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Thanks, Rip--that's the exact image I had in mind!--Robbastard 20:46, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Greyhawk's article on Wikipedia


We are considering what to do to make Greyhawk into a "Good Article". Please discuss here if you like, or just check out the article itself and see what you can do. :) BOZ 22:31, 2 March 2009 (EST)


Hey there. :) In my quest to get more Wikipedia articles up to "Good Article" status, I've gotten ambitious and decided to take on the Drow article. Yeah, call me crazy, but I'm going to do it. :) I've put a bunch of work into the AD&D 1st edition section, using the sources I had on hand (don't have Q1 so did what I could), though I probably went overboard and will need to trim back a bit. I'm going to start on the 2nd edition section soon, but I would appreciate any help you or anyone you know can give towards building up the publication history properly, finding sources, checking for inaccuracies and completeness, etc. I'd especially need help in bulking up the novels section, as I don't have any of these. Any help you can give, even as a cheering section, would be appreciated. :) BOZ 22:59, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Dave Arneson

Hey there, did you hear about Dave Arneson? Please help me keep an eye on that article if you can, for reasons I stated on the talk page. BOZ 08:46, 9 April 2009 (EDT)


Hi Rip. I'm trying out a new format on Wikipedia for monsters. I started with Cloaker, but I've really been putting work into Bullywug lately. In particularly, I don't have Living Greyhawk Journal #2 and Dungeon #140, which are referenced on canonfire's version of Bullywug. I flipped through The Scarlet Brotherhood and Living Greyhawk Gazeteer but didn't see much on bullywugs there, but I'll probably have another look before giving up. ;) BOZ 15:42, 6 June 2009 (EDT)


Several D&D pages involved in this likely trainwreck:

Split out into BOZ 19:44, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

Infoboxes and images

Rip, what do you think about moving the infobox titles above the image, rather than below, like they are now? I recently did this for the source infobox--you can see the result at The Keep on the Borderlands. I think it looks better, mainly because one doesn't need to scroll down to see the title for tall pictures. Luckily, one just needs to change the template, not every infobox. Also, what do you think about enlarging the width of most infobox images to 250 px, instead of the current 200 px? You can see the difference on the B2 article above, and The City of Greyhawk. Personally, I think both look fine, but 250 px fills the entire box, & matches the title banner. Though I think 200 px looks fine for modules, 250 might look better on other types of articles. For this, of course, we'd have to change every current infobox image, but we could decide any new infobox images we upload would be 250 px. Thoughts?--Robbastard 19:28, 16 July 2009 (EDT)


Rip, do you still feel like 250px wide sourcebook pics are too much? I recently uploaded one for Vecna Reborn at that size, intending to make it smaller via the "|200px]]" method. However, I found that only seems to work for increasing the visible size of a pic, not decreasing. I left it & also changed the size of the other two Vecna mods in their infobox. If you think 250px sourcebook images are aesthetically fine or are indifferent, I'll change the guidelines. IMO, it'll be less confusing for newbies if we stick to one standard for all infobox images.--Robbastard 20:49, 22 February 2012 (EST)

Worth reading

At least this time, the latest Gavin drama doesn't involve us in any way, and it's good for other people to see him as the troll he really is. Maybe he'll finally get himself blocked for his BS incivility for a change, instead of just another slap on the wrist.

BOZ 13:27, 24 July 2009 (EDT)

New resource found for Sea of Dust article

Hi, I'm contacting you because you are one of the two people who has edited the Sea of Dust article. I just found a new source of information for the Sea of Dust. I've added it to the Bibliography section and added some background information to the article's talk page. Please can you check it out and see if anything needs to be updated. Thanks. Big Mac 19:01, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

Hi again, This same AOL resource also mentiones the Pits of Azak-Zil article. This time you are the only person who has edited it. Again, I've put the context information on the article's talk page (as some drive by editor might come and fix things before you read this). But if you have already read the first talk page, you won't need to read this one. Big Mac 19:16, 2 August 2009 (EDT)
Please also check Twisted Forest. Big Mac 19:24, 2 August 2009 (EDT)
Add Burning Cliffs and Rigodruok to this request. Big Mac 19:37, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

A well-done article!

Check out the Greyhawk deities article at Wikipedia. Very well done and well researched!

Also, if you want to get on this merry-go-round again, that's up to you. ;) BOZ 23:31, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

And, check out the same fellow's massive rewrite of the Greyhawk article! BOZ 18:36, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

Rel Astra

I intend to add Almor, North Kingdom and Sorcerer's Nexus to my list of "accomplishments." Thanks for the info on "Ivid the Undying." Looks great! Always glad to have "free" stuff. (Smile) Mystic-Scholar 17:51, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

Amedian gutworms? You were holding out on me! Shame! (Laughs) Mystic-Scholar 23:38, 27 August 2009 (EDT)

Sorcerer's Nexus

I've just created this page, "Sorcerer's Nexus." I've typed information into the "Greyhawk Organization" box to the right, but nothing is appearing there. What am I doing wrong? Mystic-Scholar 15:00, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Sorry, forgot my signature last time. Ooops! I'm having the same problem with the Guild of Wizardry page I just created. Little help please -- know you're busy. Mystic-Scholar 15:00, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Please add "Society of Magi" to the list. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 20:04, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Wikipedia Signpost/2009-09-21/WikiProject report: WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons

Check it out!  :) [9] BOZ 11:28, 21 September 2009 (EDT)


Speaking of Planescape... :) [10] BOZ 14:50, 29 November 2009 (EST)

Spam accounts

Thanks, Rip. I talked to Gary at last week's chat about restricting access, and he indicated that any requests for new accounts will have to be set up though him.--Robbastard 13:34, 18 December 2009 (EST)


Rip, I was just looking through some of my older contributions and found that the "history" on Stoink doesn't show my contributions, which I'm sure I made. Is this normal, or am I mistaken? Just curious. Mystic-Scholar 22:00, 28 April 2010 (EDT)

Hmmm. I'm unsure, its been awhile and I've done so much since. Not really important. I was just looking through "my contributions" and reminiscing. I was just curious how such a thing might happen -- part of my "computer learning" process. No foul, no harm. Thanks Rip! Mystic-Scholar 14:30, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

New Contributions

I don't know if Rob's said anything, but in the past week I've made the following contributions to the wiki; Lake Spendlowe, Hool Marshes, Tors, Hool river, Javan river, Artonsamay river, Good Hills, Little Hills, Grandwood Forest, Rift Canyon, Men of the Rift, Reyhu, Tangles, Earldom of the Tangles, Dreadwood and my favorite Druniazth.

Rob's already looked at some of them, but I thought you might be interested in checking on my work. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 12:37, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

I am monitoring "my contributions." Many of our Greytalk and CF friends are sending me modules, LGJs and Dungeon/Dragon mags. I'm catching up on them and as I find new "canon" information, I'll be adding it to my entries. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 12:47, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

I just added the Azure Sea to the list. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 13:41, 3 May 2010 (EDT)


Some of my contributions I've categorized as "Greyhawk lakes" and "Greyhawk rivers," because that's what they are, but there are no such categories available. How do we make a new category? Mystic-Scholar 12:53, 3 May 2010 (EDT)


Rip, thanks for the lesson, I'll look into doing some of that, as I think it might be nice to separate rivers, lakes, seas and oceans. Again, thanks for the lesson and the interest. Hope you and Rob like my efforts and thanks for the patience! Mystic-Scholar 14:46, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

Oh, and one of the reasons for so many entries this past week is that I'm "chasing down" my own articles' "red hyperlinks" and filling in the pertinent information readily available to me in order to make them true categories. Mystic-Scholar 14:50, 3 May 2010 (EDT)


Rip, been chasing links around (Mishka) and found this one to "Planewalker," I think. Was that your entry? I take it that Desayeus is not a god of Greyhawk that I haven't heard of?

And I was wondering, which Oerth god would you associate with the Egyptian "Thoth?" Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 23:26, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

Davish river

Submitted Davish river to the wiki. Looking over Against the Giants and will be adding to this entry. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 23:48, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

Adri Forest

My submission for the Adri Forest is ready for your perusal. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 23:34, 4 May 2010 (EDT)


Rip, I want to do an entry for Melkot, though it will be admittedly "small," but I've forgotten how to "load" the template. Do I just go to the template "Greyhawk Realms" and start typing? Little help, please sir. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 20:42, 6 May 2010 (EDT)

Dang it Rip! I wasn't finished with that and you already beat me to it! Hahahahaha! Thanks buddy! Mystic-Scholar 23:04, 8 May 2010 (EDT)

Dark Gate

Rip, is there any information on Dark Gate, other than the LGG? Mystic-Scholar 23:13, 8 May 2010 (EDT)

My submission for Dark Gate is ready for your perusal. Thanks! Mystic-Scholar 00:05, 9 May 2010 (EDT)

Thanks again

You really add some nice touches to my submissions, Rip, thanks. You make me look good. :) Hope I'm not aggravating you with so many submissions. Just want to see the wiki grow! Mystic-Scholar 23:31, 8 May 2010 (EDT)


Rip, I never found the reference to the Empire of Vecna in the sources I quoted. Do we need another reference in the Bibliography? Mystic-Scholar 09:05, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

Found it referenced under Keoland, but nothing specific on its relationship to the Rushmoors. Mystic-Scholar 09:07, 10 May 2010 (EDT)


For helping out with Mystic Scholar, Rip!--Robbastard 00:09, 12 May 2010 (EDT)


Rip! You "deleted" my contributions! You're just jealous! LOL Keeping you busy tonight? This is number 3 or 4, lost count. Mystic-Scholar 22:16, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

Jocking some hyperlinks. Just a personal taste, but I like the hyperlink to be the first occurrence of the article linked. Hope this doesn't bother you. Mystic-Scholar 22:21, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

Thelly River

Given that you've added that info on Thalland (very cool btw) do we need to add Cordell to the Bibliography? Mystic-Scholar 22:35, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

Rip, not to bother you and perhaps I'm just blind, but I've perused the entries for Ahlissa, Sunndi, Bonewood, Reiuwood, Glorioles, and Hollow Highlands and don't see any mention of Thalland. May I ask, where in the LGG is the entry that you mention regarding Thalland's association with the Thelly river? Mystic-Scholar 16:37, 22 May 2010 (EDT)

Nallid River

appears on the LGG map, with its headwaters near Delaric, in North Kingdom, but the LGG has no write-up on it. I mention it in the Flanmi River article. Will have to hunt for the information. Mystic-Scholar 22:42, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

North Kingdom

Thanks for that Thalland info Rip and the "heads-up" about the use of the article's "talk" page. Working on North Kingdom today and it will take awhile -- lots of info -- may not finish today, but it's no longer just a "Stub." Mystic-Scholar 18:32, 22 May 2010 (EDT)


In case you might be interested in this sort of thing. BOZ 18:00, 18 September 2010 (EDT)

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts

Even if you have no love for 4E, some thoughts on making a clearer differentiation between them would be interesting food for thought. [11] BOZ 18:48, 17 June 2011 (EDT)

Have you had a look at this thread? BOZ 13:29, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

Fictional character articles on Wikipedia

Hi Rip,

I recently finished adding a long list of articles about various planar Powers to Wikiepdia (cross-posting them here and some on FRwiki), which took me a few months to complete. I decided to do this after the new Fictional Characters wikiproject added a bunch of D&D articles to a "no real-world content" list, so it occurred to me that maybe I should add a Publication History section to each of these characters, and while I was at it I'd pick up most of the archdevils, demon lords, slaad lords, celestial paragons, and archomentals I'd missed along the way. Well, that added a few dozen more articles, but now at least I removed about 90% of the D&D articles from the "no real-world content" list, so I was happy about that.

Anyway, as I was getting to work on these articles, I thought about how it's been a while since I put any real work into our many fictional character articles (which includes gods and monsters). I've done a lot with articles on various sourcebooks and printed adventures, and even some game designers and such, but I have hardly touched the character articles, and I wanted to get back into that. My goal has been to rewrite them just about from scratch, to replace the content with hopefully more encylopedia-friendly text. Most of it is in-universe, which is frowned upon. Most of it has no citations, which is even worse. My goal is to get the articles to a point where in-universe style is minimal, and where everything is cited back to which source the information came from. At the same time, one of my pet peeves is that many of the articles are written from a 3rd edition perspective, and I'm sure there are plenty of folks who'd be itching to box them into a 4th edition perspective as well. I have believed for some time now, that you can't have an encyclopedic article about something with a long history where you ignore the long history!  :)

So, my goal is to take care of problems such as these with a massive rewrite. I actually started doing this a couple of years ago with articles about monsters, such as the cloaker, bullywug, mimic, and barghest. Ultimately, I'm not fond of how they turned out. I mean, the content isn't bad, I just no longer like how I organized them. The by-edition perspective is something I wanted to include, but by putting everything into sections the way I did kind of forces the issue heavy-handedly. I decided to abandon the previous sections (description, habitat, etc) but now I think I want them back, and I think I know what I need to do to make that work with what I am trying to accomplish. I've recently seen you doing this to an extent on the GH and FR wikis, so I hope you get what I'm talking about. The publication history sections will go back to talking solely about where and how the subject is presented and by whom, while the rest of the article will talk about the actual content in the sources.

I am planning to start this back up tomorrow by working with Orcus. Something that big will probably take a few weeks. My goal is to include as much summarized information on him from 1976 all the way up to his usage in 4th edition today, as will possibly make sense to fit, and then go on to do the same with as many articles as I can stand to work on. I was wondering if you can help me out as I work on these articles; I'm not asking you to do any of the actual work, but I need help in locating sources and finding out which pages information can be found on, and I feel you're pretty good at that. If you're not sure where I'm coming from, check the Orcus article in about 24 hours to see what kind of progress I've made, and that should give you an idea.


BOZ 15:42, 31 August 2011 (EDT)

For an example of where I'm going with this, I started last night: [12] BOZ 07:55, 1 September 2011 (EDT)
I totally understand - fan-wikis like this one are important, too, because like you say no one is going to hassle you over notability guidelines. I don't worry about notability guidelines too much, myself, regardless.  :) But yeah, as far as editing Wikipedia, I appreciate any help I get, but I'm not asking for that. I'm trying to be as much of a completist as I can with sources and information - check out what I've done on Orcus just today, to see an example of what I am trying to accomplish there. I'm working more or less in chronological order of publication date, so my goal is to finish everything from before the Bloodstone modules before the end of the day. Bloodstone will take me a while to go through, as will Dead Gods, but everything else won't be so bad. You'll probably get a clearer picture of where I'm going on a couple of weeks or so when I've really gotten on with Orcus. BOZ 16:44, 1 September 2011 (EDT)


I've been putting a bunch of work into the Orcus article; right now, I'm just about done going through all the first edition sources, and just have about the second half of H4 to go. Let me know what you think of what I've done so far - too detailed, not details enough, good or bad format, etc? BOZ 18:44, 8 September 2011 (EDT)

Thanks! That does help the 2nd edition section. As for the Immortals version and the Ghostwalk version, I had moved those down to the "other versions" section (similarly to the way comic book character articles are handled), because I feel they don't really reflect on the "mainstream" version of Orcus. BOZ 11:22, 9 September 2011 (EDT)
I merged the two instances of the Immortals text together. Unfortunately I couldn't find the time to really work on the article today, but we'll see how busy my weekend is! BOZ 19:06, 9 September 2011 (EDT)
Oh boy, am I tired. I finally got all the stuff from the H1-4 series regarding Orcus onto Wikipedia. I probably went overboard, especially on the description of his Realm. Oh well, better too much info than not enough. I'm thinking about editing down some of the story info that doesn't actually detail the realm itself, although some of that is needed to understand the way it's set up. I may do subsections to separate this description of his realm from the Planes of Chaos and on version, since I don't think the Planescape designers referenced H4. I'll try to find the time to start adding stuff from Planes of Chaos tomorrow, but we'll see. BOZ 19:53, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
To save me some time, I'm asking to see if you know. Is Orcus mentioned anywhere in The Great Modron March, or hinted at any more specifically than "Gee, there's something really wrong with Primus and the modrons"? Where was it revealed that he was posing as Primus, in Dead Gods? And if so, do you know the page number(s)?
I am just about done going through everything printed before Dead Gods, and I imagine that book will take me at least as long to go through as The Throne of Bloodstone, if not longer. BOZ 14:31, 20 September 2011 (EDT)
Thanks; I think I've got the relevant information from that book in there now. Time permitting, I'm going to start working my way through Dead Gods today - I may or may not feel the need to read the whole thing, but I do have a good idea of which pages are the most important to start out with. BOZ 10:05, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
I've been using the "A Brief History of Orcus" by Shane O'Connor to help me pick out the details in the adventure, and I'm a bit stumped by a line that says "When Orcus abandoned his physical body in his apotheosis to godhood, his worshippers kept the remains of it as a phylactery." Do you know where this comes from? BOZ 19:15, 21 September 2011 (EDT)
Yes, there are definitely some errors in it, but the good part is that he admits his uncertainty/lack of knowledge in those cases. Thanks - got the phylactery bit in there now. BOZ 12:01, 22 September 2011 (EDT)
Hi, Rip. I finally got through Dead Gods - it was an even more mammoth task than I had expected, including reading through the whole adventure. I've been trying to nail down the relationship of Orcus to Acererak, which I think was established in Return to the Tomb of Horrors (which I am not going to read all the way through). I know there's a brief mention of a connection in the little journal that comes with the boxed set, but I'm wondering if there's more, so I'm picking your brain again. BOZ 22:06, 3 October 2011 (EDT)
Or, you could just check out this thread. :) BOZ 19:10, 4 October 2011 (EDT)
Does the Dragon #291 article have more than this related to Orcus? That was the only time I saw his name mentioned, although I was skimming rather than fully reading. BOZ 20:12, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
No, that's it. -- Rip 08:07, 18 October 2011 (EDT)
Great! I'm moving right along, just have the 3.5 and 4E material left (he says as if that is a small thing). BOZ 10:00, 18 October 2011 (EDT)
Done with 3.5, should be done with 4E hopefully by mid-November. BOZ 16:00, 29 October 2011 (EDT)


I wanted to consult you on the format that I want to use going forward on these articles. I don't think I'm going to force all the existing ones to conform to antyhing, but as I work on them I would like to get something standardized. If you look, for example, at the demon lord articles on WP, it looks like each of them uses a different format, or has the sections in different order, or whatever. The GHwiki here is a lot more standardized, thanks I think to yours and Rob's efforts. I'd like to use that a similar pattern, although with some rearrangement as follows. I want to keep the Publication history first and foremost because that's proabably the most important thing to show on Wikipedia, that not everything is in-universe, and also as a way to be informative and put things into perspective. After that would be a few different in-universe sections, and then after that we would put all non-canon and other stuff. I also want to collapse all the sections together which specifically relate to the actual worship of the deity, since I'll be exploring the Powers as fictional characters rather than just fictional dieites. Here is what I am thinking of going with, based on that:

  • Publication history: first time character appears or is mentioned in each edition, and every subsequent appearance significant to character development or where the character is significantly involved; also anything known about the character's creative origins or inspiration
  • Description: what the character looks like in its most common form, its abilities, its attitudes and behaviors, its goals and tendencies, etc
  • Relationships: its enemies, allies, and servants
  • Realm: where does it live, any other locations it controls or has dominion over
  • Worhsippers: information about the god's dogma, cults, clergy and other followers, temples, rituals, holy days, myths, etc
  • Artifacts and relics: specific items related to the Power and/or its worship
  • History: the in-universe history of the character, especially events prior to publication, or published events (like in adventures) that made significant changes to the character
  • Campaign settings: for non-world specific Powers, what specific information do we have for FR, GH, and other worlds
  • Other versions: non-canonical versions of the character published by WotC or other publishers
  • Other media: how has the character been used in novels, video games, etc

I'm not married to that specific order, or even the heading titles, or even necessarily how some of the sections are put together. Give me some feedback on how you think this should work. Thanks! BOZ 16:14, 29 October 2011 (EDT)

Any thoughts? :) BOZ 17:06, 5 November 2011 (EDT)
Hah, allright then. :) BOZ 21:02, 10 November 2011 (EST)

Reckoning of Hell

This user has been going around re-nominating articles which were previously AFD'd, and so far he has been pretty successful, at least in getting them merged instead of kept as articles. However, I am concerned because Reckoning of Hell is closer to getting deleted than the others were. BOZ 08:15, 10 February 2012 (EST)


Hi Rip,

After a request by an anonymous editor to check out the Baalphegor article on Wikipedia, I did some work on it. I don't have Dungeon 135, but I went through all the other sources which I do have, and I was able to add further details from Dragon 76 and Dungeon 2. However, I didn't see any mention of her in Guide to Hell, Faces of Evil, or Book of Vile Darkness - which were noted as resources for both the WP version and the Canonfire version. I also think I saw somewhere that someone thought she was mentioned in Dragon 91 and Powers and Pantheons - note how the articles mention a connection between her and Gargauth - but I didn't see her name in either of those. Can you tell me if you know if she really is mentioned in any of those five sources somewhere that I did not see, because if not there is a lot of text on the WP article that is probably fanon and we need to remove. BOZ (talk) 00:12, 24 February 2013 (EST)

General of Gehenna

Any idea if this is true? BOZ (talk) 16:58, 21 March 2015 (EDT)

Blipdoolpoolp e Hruggek

The 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes says the there two deities dwell in the Abyss, that's why I added them.